Hey Everyone!
Today, we’re in for a treat. We’ve got an epic guest post from one of my all time favorite blogs on the internet, AssetBasedLife.com.
That blog’s author, Paul, is the type of guy that younger guys like me aspire to be. He’s early retired from a successful career, with a ton of money in the bank and a happy family to boot.
Considering I’m getting married in roughly half a year, I’m excited to hear some of his wisdom on this topic. Take it away, Paul!
I made a decision tree to determine if I should marry my wife. And people say that romance is dead. š
Before all of the ladies start throwing tomatoes at me and styling me as some emotionless robot, a bit of background is in order.
One of the most important bits of knowledge I picked up in my entire life was the decision science coursework I did in graduate school. It gave me a disciplined way for framing decisions, for analyzing and evaluating potential outcomes, for understanding the value of information, and for ultimately making excellent decisions.
Not every decision requires a ton of analysis, though. If youāre weighing which item to order at a restaurant or choosing between cell phones, you can probably skip a detailed decision tree. But as a decision increases in importance, correctly framing and evaluating it is essential.
Iāve used decision trees in my work for every major corporate decision I owned. I certainly used one to decide which job I should take after graduate school. I made a comprehensive one to guide me when I quit a lucrative job after the birth of my first child. And when I finally quit the corporate world for good (letās hopeā¦), youād better believe I weighed all of the potential outcomes with a detailed decision tree.
The bigger the decision, the more important it is that you are fully informed and consider all of the potential outcomes.
And marriage is the biggest decision of your life.
If you choose the wrong college, or career, or house, or cell phone, you can recover from those mistakes. It may take a little money or effort, but you can still get back on the best possible path for your life. But if you marry the wrong person, particularly if you then add kids to the mix, you may never fully recover.
Thatās not to say you canāt still have a happy life as a divorcee; itās just that it may never be as good as it could have been. Those arenāt my words – those are the words of people Iāve known whoāve gotten divorced. Each of them has said it was the most depressing, soul-wrenching experience of their lives. Sometimes the divorce made them stronger, but it was a workout they wished they could have skipped. Given a choice, I donāt know a single divorcee who would say, āYes! Iām really happy I married that person and would do it all over again.ā
So divorce is bad and best avoided. Noted. The problem is that there is nothing you can do to guarantee you wonāt get divorced. Roughly half of marriages end in divorce, and every one of those happy couples thought theyād make it. People change and bad stuff happens; thatās life. However, there are things you can do to improve your odds, and improving the chances of success on lifeās biggest decision is a pretty good idea.
But We Love Each Other!
Iāll pause for a second to address all of the folks shaking their heads. You ājust knowā that he / she is āTHE ONE!!!ā, right? You guys are going to be together forever. Youāll go from being passionately in love, to buying a house, to raising wonderful healthy smart kids, to aging gracefully in lockstep, to finally sitting as wrinkly old folks in twin bathtubs holding hands while you watch the sunset. Itās gonna be awesome, and there wonāt be major conflicts, because you guys are so compatible and love conquers all. āOther people get divorced, but they donāt have what we have.ā
Letās tap the brakes for a second, lovebirds. In all of human history, guess how many marriages have had no major conflicts or challenges? How many young brides and grooms keep the exact same interests, values, physical shape, and personality for the next few decades? How many couples share precisely the same goals for the rest of their lives? None of them.
Staying married isnāt really about building a super awesome bonfire of love that will burn for eternity. Itās more like building a foundation that can weather the shocks that life will hand you, and thatāll allow for two different people to grow and change but still be better off as a team than apart. That may not sound super romantic, but hereās a newsflash: marriage isnāt always super romantic.
I knew that going in. While my girlfriend and I seemed really compatible and had loads of fun together, I knew marriage would bring stress and challenges.
I needed to build a decision tree. The most important decision tree of my life. I considered all of the good and bad things that could happen (and assigned them probabilities, which I concede sounds a bit unromanticā¦). Things like kids, career, and finances were the biggest items, but there were so many things to consider, and so many potential paths to go down.
The Bulls*** List Is Born
As I built my decision tree, I realized I didnāt know everything I needed to know about my potential spouse. I started to make a list covering all of the things I thought we should discuss before getting married – areas where I didnāt want to make any assumptions, because not being on the same page could be an enormous stress or even a fatal flaw to our union. It took a long time, but I finally had all of the topics and questions identified. The hard work was done. Yeah! Now I just needed to run it by my lady.
She was ever-so-slightly less than receptive.
Apparently – and you gents should take note – ladies donāt like when you make a due diligence checklist when youāre considering marriage. She dubbed my hard work āthe bulls*** listā. Ouch. She said I was evaluating her like this was some transaction (me: āNo! Itās not like that at all!ā while thinking, āUhhhh…yeah.ā)
But she reluctantly agreed to look at my bulls*** list. And she liked it! Her comment, and I quote, was, āIām sorry. I found writing this stuff is actually encouraging. Iām sorry I called it bulls***.ā
So I had a great idea, but I may not have been as sensitive or clever as needed in communicating it. I was ready to be a husband. š
As we discussed our bulls*** list, we realized we had even more in common than we might have thought. Some areas that we hadnāt fully discussed showed remarkable consensus. Some areas we simply hadnāt thought much about, so talking about them as a couple was really informative. We each had a few āmust-havesā that the other was cool with. Overall, it showed that we were really compatible. Or, in the language of romance, it revealed a high probability for a successful marriage.
Build Your Own Checklist
Every couple should build their own marriage checklist together (feel free to call it a bulls*** list if you like). The topics can and should vary by couple – whatās important or relevant to one wonāt be to another. However, anything that could be encountered in a marriage should be discussed; making bad assumptions and then discovering a vast gulf on a critical matter can completely erode the foundation of your marriage.
As a tiny example of the value of such a checklist: what if a couple wants kids, but canāt have them? Is that a minor setback, or a life crisis? What if the wife wants to adopt, but the husband says no way? Wouldnāt that be a good thing to find out before marriage?
Iāve included the major areas and questions from our list below, but each couple needs to review and expand every topic specific to them. The key is to uncover the important things you need to know before marriage.
Children
- Yes or no?
- How many? (recognizing youāre not fully in control of this – talk ranges and āwhat-ifsā)
- Whatās the ideal timing? If we wait, are we OK with a higher risk weāll fail?
- What if we want children but canāt have them? Fertility treatments? To what budget / limit? What if the infertility is due to just one of us?
- Do we want to adopt? (could be instead of or in addition to biological children)
- Will we screen for abnormalities during pregnancy? What if we find them?
- Stay-at-home parenting versus working – will one parent stay at home? How do we decide who does?
- If we both work, what will we do for child care?
- What are our education expectations? Private versus public? College? Grad school?
- Career – are there expectations / demands for a childās career choice?
- What happens if our kid [fill in the blank with something bad you donāt like]?
This could be anything – fully disclose any of your fears / concerns. If youād freak out if your kid didnāt go to college, or was a Yankees fan, say so now. This is an important discussion, and it can also tell you volumes about your partner.
Finances
- What are your / my financial goals?
- What are your / my career goals?
- Will we have joint or separate accounts, or some hybrid?
- Who is going to manage our finances?
- Whatās your / my attitude toward saving?
- Whatās your / my attitude toward debt?
- What assets and debts are we bringing into the marriage? Do we need a pre-nup?
- What if we need to prioritize one career over the other? How do we decide?
- What are our financial priorities? (Retirement / early retirement, travel, hobbies, awesome house, vacation house, nice stuff, cool cars, enjoyable work, lucrative work, college for kids, grad school for kids, inheritance for kids, charity donations, etc.)
- Budgeting and planning – how will we achieve consensus on our finances?
- How will we work together / get each otherās approval on purchases (big and small)?
- How will we reconcile financial disagreements?
- Will we need to help out other family members? What are the expectations / rules / limits?
- Will other family members want to (insist on) helping us out? Helping our kids out? What strings are attached?
- What will we give to charity? Which ones?
Extended Family / Family Obligations
- Who will we visit, and when?
- Who will visit us, and when?
- How do we prioritize across two (or more) families?
- What boundaries do we need to set with parents?
- Will we need to take care of elderly parents or other relatives? What form will that take (purely financial, move in with us, etc.)?
Social Issues
Iāll let you and your partner flesh this one out. My missus and I were pretty close on most social issues, so we didnāt have too much to cover. If you and your partner have major differences on key social or political issues, itād be good to discuss that now. Iāve known some couples where stark political differences served as minor background entertainment; Iāve known others where itās been a real source of marital stress. If there are potential issues here, agree on ground rules to minimize conflicts.
Religion
- Are we going to practice? Which one(s)? How often?
- Are there any expectations from parents or other family members?
- How do we reconcile any differences in beliefs?
- What will we teach the kids?
Communication / Conflict
- Are we good at resolving conflict? (āCause there will be conflict. Lots of conflict.)
- Are we willing to get outside help / counseling if needed?
- How well do we communicate? What problems do we have?
- What are our attitudes toward divorce? What situations / scenarios could prompt it?
Cultural
This was an area my future wife and I needed to explore in some depth because weāre from different countries; our questions were pretty specific to us.
But this is an area that brainstorming together will help any couple. Even if youāre from the same country and general culture, you still may have some very different traditions and experiences. Just figuring out when you open Christmas presents could be a landmine. (For reference, the correct answer is: immediate family on Christmas Eve, Santa and other family on Christmas Day.)
Household Expectations
- Who will do what work around the house?
- What will we do ourselves, and what will we outsource?
- What developments (e.g., one of us stops working, we have a big increase in income) could change the answers to the above?
Geographic
- Where will we live?
- What will prompt a move? Career opportunity, boredom, global warming, gold rush, etc.
- Do we need to live close to any family members? Will any family members move to live close to (or with!) us?
- Where is our ideal location?
- Where do we refuse to live?
Health
A good rule for this area is to answer, āIs there anything I need to know?ā For example, if you have a personal or family history (e.g., substance abuse, clinical depression) that might concern a future spouse, say so now. If you know you might have trouble having children, letās go ahead and disclose that.
Some people hide critical health information from a spouse with the hope that love will conquer all once theyāre married. That seems like a really bad way to start a marriage.
Entertainment / Interests
- What do we like to do together? What will we do for fun when weāre young and kid-free? Once we have kids? When weāre old / retired?
- How do we decide between competing activities?
- What do each of us like to do alone? (Pro tip: an answer of ānothingā is a concern.)
- What will we do to maintain our individual friendships? (If you want to have an annual trip with your buddies, or a weekly night out, or a monthly golf outing, say so now. Itās a lot harder to negotiate post marriage.)
- Do we have problems with any of the otherās friends?
Broaching this may require some sensitivity, but it should be discussed. If you think once you are married you can kill off any unapproved friendships, you may be setting the stage for a brutal early fight.
Pets
- Will we have pets?
- How many?
- What types?
- Any pets on the must-have or veto list?
What will your checklist reveal?
Your checklist may include questions and topics far beyond ours. Anything that is important and relevant to your future life together should be discussed, especially when you could be making very different assumptions.
Thereāll still be plenty of surprises once youāre married, but youād like the surprises to be like, āOh wow. I never knew you cut your pancakes that way!ā rather than, āWait, youāre into swinging?ā
Any couple going through a comprehensive checklist will discover valuable things about each other. Some may be good, some may be bad, and some may be fascinating. While this process could reveal potential deal-killers, thereās a chance that by openly and honestly discussing contentious issues, you can resolve them and have a plan in place before you marry (this is way better than surprise ultimatums later). If you canāt resolve them, donāt think that this process killed the marriage. It was already dead. Youāve just saved yourself a ton of grief (and time, and money, and chances with someone else).
One charge that could be levied against such a thorough checklist is that it could force people to confront very difficult issues that may never arise. You might even love your partner a little less based on how they answer one of these questions. If you end up not having to face that issue, wouldnāt it be better to never have known?
I would say no. Marriage (and a decision treeā¦) asks you to prepare for better or for worse. Youāre deciding to hold hands with someone and face every one of those potential paths together. If you want to hide from one of the āworseā paths in the hopes it wonāt happen, are you really getting married? Or are you just taking an option on the ābetterā paths?
Final Thoughts on The Romance of Decision Trees
When youāre young and full of lust for someone, itās pretty easy to get excited about marriage and skip over the details. The idea of discussing a boring checklist to vet long-term compatibility sounds incredibly unromantic and maybe even a little bulls***.
But you know whatās even less romantic? Divorce.
There are many potential surprises when you marry someone, even if youāve dated for a long time. If you skimp on your diligence and fill in the unknown with your hopes and dreams of what a perfect spouse should be, you may be setting yourself up for failure.
Using a checklist to discuss topics and scenarios that donāt usually arise during courtship will ensure the person you think you are marrying is close to who they actually are. If you spend the time to find out everything – the good, the bad, and the ugly – about your potential spouse, and you still choose to marry them, itās not just giving you a high probability of success. Itās also pretty romantic š
Thanks again for the guest post, Paul!
Readers, what do you think? Is his list bulls*** or a actually great idea?
(I vote the latter)
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Michelle says
This is fantastic! Where were you before I got married the first time?? LOL (answer: not even born š )
Paul says
Thanks! Sorry you had to pick up some of the wisdom the hard way, but I imagine it’s made the second time so much sweeter.
Paul says
Many thanks for the opportunity! And remember: no one cares what you think about the checklist. It’s what the Lady Money Wizard thinks that matters š Good luck!
The Money Wizard says
Haha, of course! Thanks again for the awesome guest post, Paul. And for everyone else, be sure to head to assetbasedlife.com to see more of Paul’s fantastic writing!
Wade says
This is genius and unfortunately very necessary these days. Marriage has turned into a gamble because the downside has grown to be very steep, especially for people who are trying to pursue FIRE. Millennials are still saddled with substantial student loan debt with many still only have modest salaries. For someone who is well off and has their crap together like yourself and your partner due to financial discipline, the financial risk of marriage is very high. Adding kids and the potential stay at home parent discussion to the mix only complicates things even more. If both partners have careers and there’s no stay at home parent, then outside of benefits to a widowed spouse, I don’t think there’s any benefit at all to getting legally married. Either way, you are very lucky to have found someone who checked all the right boxes for you.
Paul says
Indeed – you highlight the increased complexity that makes it much more challenging for two people to commit for life. Life was far simpler when two very young people at the same stage in life got married and only one of them planned on working. Not necessarily better, but certainly simpler. The rewards of marriage are still there, but as you note the downside can be really steep. Best to do some proper due diligence š
hfm says
Very interesting post. As someone who has been married for 17 years I am thankful my marriage has worked regardless of our reckless choices early on because because of “love”. I was just lucky to win the lottery of finding a hard working partner who can carry a lot on his shoulders and is a problem solver and therefore climbed the corporate ranks because of his skills.
Although not easy to talk about, but a lot of people struggle with is Mental Illness. Talk about abuses that have occurred in your histories as they can impact Mental Health. Although your partner may seem ok now, they may develop mental illness down the road during stressful times. Schizophrenia developed in someone close to me (they are only 30 years old) and it has destroyed their family life with three kids under 5 years old. This schizophrenic person experienced abuse as a young kid. Getting help early and dealing with emotions in a healthy way is just always better then waiting for something bad to happen and dealing with a fallout.
Another important thing in a relationship is knowing how to fight. Can you or your partner take ownership of the problem you brought to the table? self reflection is so necessary because without it, it’s impossible to get better. without self reflection the problem will always be someone else’s fault. and when it’s someone else’s fault then you will become the victim of the problems rather then the owner of the problem. as a victim you can’t change anything that happens to you, as an owner you are in full control of what happens to you.
Screen your partner for narcissist traits. Know the traits before getting sucked into binding mairrage / financial /business contract. It will save you much heart ache.
Life changes people and attitudes and values change. People want things and then change their mind. Life beats people up or it makes them stronger.
What stays the same is a person’s character.
Paul says
Outstanding advice. The mere fact that “knowing how to fight” is an important skill to bring to the marriage may be news to lots of starry eyed lovers, but it’s critical.
And excellent point on mental illness. Something that should definitely be discussed – both for fairness, and so your partner can better understand & assist if something does arise. Most people won’t be dissuaded at the potential for something down the road (and if they are, they may want to avoid partnering with a human, since any of us can experience mental illness), but they’ll be far better prepared to assist if they know in advance.
Thanks for the note
kristi O'Donnell says
This is a great idea. My current husband and I had a talk about similar things. I met him right after my divorce and had lots of issues/baggage. We were long distance for so long, which was perfect for me. When we decided that long distance wasn’t good enough anymore, we kind of ran through a high level version of this. I was not particularly keen on getting married ever again and he didn’t really think it was all that necessary (side note: we had to so that we could live in the same country together). Kids were okay, but I was getting older and didn’t want to do treatments. I wanted it to happen naturally and if we don’t have kids, were okay with that in life. And then decided on where to live…America became the country of choice, because my job was good. We have worked through other things since getting married. And our Christmas tradition was decided before we got married. Correct answer is Open one present each on Christmas Eve and then watch me whine and moan and complain that it would be okay to open on more present. Salmon and scrambled eggs for Christmas Day morning and then open the rest of the presents with eachother and then later with family.
I would add to the cleaning Bullshit list is if you are a messy person or clean person? Do you want to have a minimal household or full of shit? And one that came out when we bought our first house together…ARTWORK Style.
Paul says
It sounds like you came in well-prepared, and while the serious discussions don’t seem that romantic, it sounds like you guys worked through a lot of complexity and choices are were probably a lot stronger and more committed as a result.
Great point on messy / clean – that’s something that could / should be on the list, but is also good just to observe firsthand!
lol on Xmas – everyone has their own tradition š
Brian says
Reading this, it’s all the more reason NOT to get married (at least in my opinion). š
Paul says
My work is done! If thinking about all of these complexities, risks, and compromises gives someone pause about pursuing marriage, that is a great thing. It’s definitely not for everyone, and it’s certainly not necessary to have a great and fulfilling life. But I kinda like it š
MMM says
The list, while comprehensive and relevant, could be intimidating for the unmarried. Hope it does not douse the flames of passion and romance. The list does however reflect the reality that married life isn’t a bed of roses. It takes unwavering commitment from both parties.
Paul says
Well, dousing the flames of passion and romance (for a moment) is kinda the idea…
If talking through all of the details of what a long-term life together would look like kill the excitement to get married, then maybe that’s a good thing. ‘Cause whatever on the list is a problem will raise its head someday – better now than later.
But it’s a fair point – no one who is full of love and emotion wants to tap the brakes and talk about this stuff!
MMM says
Totally agree. These days, its advisable for both parties to be well-grounded in the reality of a married life way before they commit to get married. And, this list will be a great way to do a mutual reality check, mutual love notwithstanding.
nicoleandmaggie says
A surprisingly good post given the clickbaity title. Really it’s more of a “should a couple get married” or “X questions you should ask each other before tying the knot” than “how to vet your future spouse”.
Paul says
I’ll have to take the blame for the clickbaitiness, but it did reflect my actual experience as I was accused of vetting / doing “due diligence” until my missus saw the list and understood what I was after. And yet, even if you styled it much more nicely (e.g., “X questions…before tying the knot”), I feel the focus shouldn’t be on a couple working to resolve any doubts they might have, but each individual working to resolve his / her own.
The Money Wizard says
Paul writes awesome stuff – no surprise there! And I disagree that it’s a clickbaity title. As Paul mentioned, if the answers show total incompatibility, it’s okay to quit while you’re ahead.
Alex says
Consider adding questions about sexual expectations/compatibility. It’s a major source of frustration in many marriages, and it’s exactly the kind of topic people don’t bring up unless explicitly prompted.
Paul says
That’s definitely an area where different expectations can undermine a marriage!
Erik @10YearTarget says
Why are the three outcomes of not getting married all about either finding someone else or end up miserable? Can’t you be together without marriage?
Other than that, great that you analyzed the pros and cons, hehe.
Paul says
That wasn’t a fully developed decision tree – it was just presenting a simplistic and somewhat humorous take on what might happen if you don’t pull the trigger š The importance and complexity of this decision would require you to expand on all of the potential outcomes, and that’d require a pretty big piece of paper!
Mr. Tako says
Not romantic, but very very practical. Good stuff Paul! And good to see you doing guest posts too!
Paul says
Many thanks Tako-san!
I am extremely selective on where I guest post – only the very best sites will do š
Steveark says
Thatās pretty elaborate, even as an engineer I didnāt go to that extreme. But I did know how my girlfriend felt about money, debt, kids, her faith and careers. But in addition to that we did some other things. I taught her how to snow ski, she learned how to play tennis. Those were big shared hobbies that 41 years after our wedding we still do together. Over the years we also added fishing, distance running, hiking, bushwhacking, off roading and pickleball to our shared hobbies and we do all of those things together still in our sixties. Especially now with all our kids grown and living scattered and distant those shared pursuits let us have fun together, and if marriage isnāt fun then thatās when trouble happens. Sheās my best friend and favorite buddy at the same time and I think a lot of it is because we do so many things we enjoy together. You are obviously a smart and thoughtful guy so I doubt you needed any advice from me but boomers just canāt help giving it out!